MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
We start today with a political earthquake. President Biden has announced he is giving up his party's nomination, dropping out of the race for reelection, and he has endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris as his choice to take over the top of the Democratic ticket. That said, it is unclear how the party will proceed. And to talk it through, we are joined by NPR senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, who is in Rehoboth Beach, Del. That's where Biden has been recovering from COVID. Also with us, NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson. Hi, you two.
MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Hi there.
TAMARA KEITH, BYLINE: Hello.
KELLY: Hi. All right. Tam, I'm struggling to figure out quite where to begin, but let's start with President Biden. What more is he saying about this decision?
KEITH: Well, he made his announcement in a letter addressed to the American people. And after talking about his accomplishments in office, he said that he believes it is in the best interest of his party and the country to, quote, "stand down" and focus on his remaining months as president. What he doesn't mention is that the drumbeat from Democrats for him to drop out had been building ever since his disastrous debate performance three weeks ago.
One adviser I spoke to recently said he was just never able to get back on solid footing after that. And, you know, today, there was a new swing state poll out from Michigan showing him trailing former President Trump badly. And you could just add that to the pile of dire news about Biden's chances against the former president. You know, he was chosen as his party's nominee four years ago because Biden was widely seen as the most electable candidate, the most able to beat former President Trump. And in recent weeks, Democrats just stopped believing it. And it seems now Biden, too, has stopped believing it.
Biden is still here in Delaware, recovering from COVID, as you say. But he says that he will address the American people at more length later this week. And we know that he is expected to deliver remarks later this week at the LBJ Presidential Library. Lyndon Johnson was the last Democratic president to step aside instead of seeking another term.
KELLY: So such rich symbolism there. I just want to push on this question of what changed because - Mara, hop in here - as you know, the Biden campaign was insisting Friday morning, Saturday morning, kept saying, he's in. He's the nominee. He's going to win. What exactly changed? Why now?
LIASSON: I think there was a real process. Remember, the - he's going to stay in; he's going to win - was softening at the end. I think what happened - it was almost like the 12 stages of grief. I mean, he started out defiant. He was in denial about the polls. He said they weren't true. But in the end, he was not deluded. And he can read a poll as well as anybody. And what he also knew is that if he was going to get out, he needed to get out before the number of Democrats saying he should get out turned into a tidal wave. And that's what was going to happen.
KELLY: Yeah.
LIASSON: And he gets to go out as the George Washington of his party. People have been - you know, the encomiums have been pouring out about what a wonderful president he is. I think in Chicago, he's going to be a beloved elder figure...
KELLY: At the convention, yeah.
LIASSON: ...And - at the convention, and he did something, in the end, that he was convinced was the best thing for his party, best chance to beat Donald Trump and the best thing for his legacy.
KELLY: So all eyes now turning to Vice President Kamala Harris, who, as we said, Biden has endorsed. Tam, what comes next for her?
(SOUNDBITE OF PAPERS RUSTLING)
KELLY: Tamara Keith, you with me? Let me see if we can make sure we can get Tam back on the line...
KEITH: Apologies. I think my line...
KELLY: Oh, here we go.
KEITH: ...Dropped...
KELLY: OK.
KEITH: And might be back.
KELLY: All right. You are back. I was just asking about Kamala Harris, who, of course, is now very much in the spotlight. What is her next step or two?
KEITH: Well, we know from a source familiar with the events of today that the president and vice president spoke multiple times ahead of the announcement. And she then released a statement after Biden's, and she said that she is honored that the president has endorsed her and that it is her intention to earn and win the nomination. She added that she will do everything in her power to unite the Democratic Party and unite the nation to defeat Donald Trump.
At this point, we don't know yet if anyone else might throw their hat into the ring and make it a real race to the Democratic Convention. So far, and it is still early going, we are seeing a ton of endorsements pour in for Harris, including from Bill and Hillary Clinton. But it is also notable that in their statements, other top leaders, like fellow Californian Nancy Pelosi and former President Barack Obama, are not explicitly endorsing Harris.
At this point, though, we haven't seen anyone else throw their hat in to challenge her. South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn, a close Biden ally, has followed his lead. He has endorsed Harris. But this morning, he was on CNN making an argument that if Biden were to step aside, the party needs to consolidate behind a nominee quickly.
JAMES CLYBURN: If you go to the convention, have an open process in the convention, it will come out the same way it came out in 1968, 1972 and 1980, when we had contested processes on the floor of the convention.
KEITH: And as a reminder of the history...
LIASSON: And they lost (laughter).
KEITH: ...President Lyndon Johnson - yeah. They all lost.
KELLY: They all lost.
KEITH: If there was a floor fight, then the Democrat lost.
KELLY: So not the way Democrats are hoping it will go this time, but Mara, since you're jumping in, I mean, is there a sense among Democrats that Harris can actually win against Donald Trump?
LIASSON: Well, there are a lot of Democrats who worry that she can't, but this is still their last best hope. And especially if they want to keep the chance to flip the House, they need a better candidate. Now, we know from polling from the NPR/Marist poll that Harris does about as well nationally in the popular vote against Trump as Biden did. She's 50 to 49 against Trump, and Biden is 50 to 48. What we don't have are public polling from the battleground states.
KELLY: Right.
LIASSON: And, of course, we don't elect our presidents by popular vote. What matters is what voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania and Arizona and Wisconsin and Nevada think. And we don't know that.
KELLY: And Georgia, as a Georgian, I've got to get that in there - yeah.
LIASSON: And Georgia, maybe. Maybe they're still a battleground. I don't know. But so that's - so Democrats feel that Harris has a better chance. They also feel she has a much better chance among millennials and Generation Z. And they think that just having a new, young, dynamic ticket will cause an explosion of energy and will unite the Democratic Party and also perhaps make up some of the deficits that Biden had with young voters and voters of color, and they're pretty much the same universe. The younger voter there is, the browner the electorate. So that's what they're hoping for. But there is no evidence yet in polling that she can do better than Biden.
KELLY: It is going to be a busy week for pollsters coming up among the rest of us. OK, I want to just focus on the nuts and bolts of what happens in this now inside a month and counting before Democrats have their convention, which, as we said, is going to be in Chicago. Tam, what do we know about what the process looks like in this unprecedented moment?
KEITH: Right. So millions of Americans voted in caucuses and primaries earlier this year, but the man they picked has taken himself out of the race. So all of the delegates that had been pledged to him are now free to vote their conscience. So we are now headed for a highly condensed primary campaign where the only voters are the 4,700 or so delegates to the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. If it does become a competitive race for the nomination, there could be televised town halls, polling to determine voter preference.
But in the end, it is just this group of elected Democrats, party activists and volunteers who will decide. And if they haven't coalesced behind a candidate by the start of the convention, it could go through multiple rounds of voting until a candidate gets the majority. And in the meantime, one expert on the process told me it will be like reality TV you have never seen before, at least not since the 1968 convention. But there is a process for this, and interestingly, there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution about how nominees are chosen. This is a party process, though for those of us who have only known nominees chosen by primaries and caucuses, it's going to feel pretty foreign and maybe even a little undemocratic. And Republicans are already playing that up.
KELLY: Yeah. And what happens if Democrats have coalesced behind a candidate, Mara?
LIASSON: Well, yeah, the big question in this process that Tam just laid out is, is there an actual competitor to Harris? Now, we haven't seen one emerge. We have to wait. And when I mean a real competitor, not a Marianne Williamson, you know, a real serious competitor. If there - and many Democrats do not expect there will be one. And if that's the case, then it's not going to be a chaotic convention, the kind of thing that Clyburn was worried about...
KELLY: Right.
LIASSON: ...Where you have chaos in Chicago, and the Democrats end up losing. I think that nothing concentrates the mind like a hanging. And in this case, Donald Trump is what's concentrating Democrats' minds, and they are desperate to unify behind a candidate. And so far, based on everything we're seeing, is that there has been an outpouring of support for Harris.
KELLY: What about what is on Republicans' minds? Or what are they saying about this? - because President Trump, Tam, as you know, Trump and his allies have been very not subtle about wanting Biden to stay the nominee. They wanted to run against Biden.
KEITH: Yeah, I was listening to the former president's rally last night in Michigan, and he thought Biden was weak and beatable. He even did this, like, informal joking poll of his crowd asking who they thought would be the easiest opponent for him to take on. And they overwhelmingly cheered for Biden, not so many cheers from his supporters wanting him to take on Harris.
Trump issued a statement on Truth Social after the news came out today, saying, quote, "crooked Joe Biden is not - was not fit to run for president and is certainly not fit to serve and never was." This is a growing theme. I don't know how politically significant it is because President Biden says he's not going anywhere. But now...
KELLY: OK.
KEITH: ...Speaker Mike Johnson and other Republicans are calling for Biden to step aside as president saying if he isn't fit to run, he isn't fit to serve.
KELLY: I'll give you both the chance just to give me a sentence or two - closing thoughts on such a day, such a huge upheaval in the Democratic party. Mara.
LIASSON: I would say Democrats are heaving a big sigh of relief with a lot of anxiety about what is to come.
KELLY: Tam.
KEITH: I texted a Biden campaign volunteer, what do you think? He wrote back, good. I think we can win with Kamala. And he'll be out knocking doors tomorrow.
KELLY: That is NPR senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, reporting there from Rehoboth Beach, Del., where President Biden is recovering from COVID. We've also been speaking with NPR national political correspondent, Mara Liasson. Thanks, you two.
KEITH: You're welcome.
LIASSON: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF BEAUVAIS POWER'S "LONER") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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