The Trump administration has defended its deportation of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia — a Maryland man mistakenly sent to a prison in El Salvador — saying "due process does look different" for people they say are members of gangs the White House has designated as terrorist organizations.
Abrego Garcia was arrested and deported in March, despite having been granted protection by an immigration judge in 2019 that should have prevented him from being deported to El Salvador.
The Justice Department has admitted the deportation was an "administrative error," but DOJ lawyers argued in court papers that he is a member of the criminal gang MS-13.
In an interview with All Things Considered guest host and NPR White House correspondent Asma Khalid on Sunday, Tricia McLaughlin — assistant secretary for public affairs at the Department of Homeland Security — said the Trump administration's deportations are legal.
"In every single case, there is due process," McLaughlin said. But, she added, there are different processes for people deemed members of terrorist groups.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Interview highlights
Asma Khalid: I want to begin by asking you why the administration asked for a stay to the order to return Abrego Garcia when he was deported in error. The judge said that the administration has not shown "any evidence of gang membership."
Tricia McLaughlin: Well, that actually is just not true. An immigration judge reviewed evidence and determined he actually is a verified member of MS-13. There's also intelligence reports that he's involved in human trafficking. So I think the bottom line for the American people and for those who are listening today is that this individual in question, who's an MS-13 gang member, he should be behind bars, whether it be in El Salvador or in a U.S. detention facility. He should not be on the streets of America. And to remind listeners, MS-13 is a gang that murders, rapes, traffics drugs. They maim for sport. These are individuals we do not want in our country, especially those who are here illegally.
Khalid: Tricia, I know you all are saying that he is a member of MS-13. To be clear, the judge has seen no evidence of that. His lawyers also deny this. Will you all be releasing any evidence to the public supporting this claim?
McLaughlin: Well, every time that a gang member denies being a gang member doesn't mean we're going to share intelligence reports that undermine our national security, but I do have to correct the record there because there's been multiple immigration judges who have reviewed evidence that he's an MS-13 member and confirmed doing so, including the DOJ's immigration appeals. They affirmed his dangerousness and dismissed his appeal.
Khalid: You know, beyond the specifics of this one case, just given the sheer numbers of deportations that we are seeing without hearings, under this administration, do foreigners living in the United States have the right to due process, to a court process?
McLaughlin: Absolutely. In every single case, there is due process. When you're looking at members of MS-13 and Tren de Aragua and other terrorist organizations that were designated as terrorist organizations under president Trump and the Trump administration, due process does look different because you're under terrorist authority. So it's going to be more law enforcement sensitive, but I can guarantee, and our DOJ guarantees, due process to these individuals.
Khalid: So Tricia, you're saying that the cases that we have seen of people being put into detention facilities or, in some cases, flown to a foreign country without any hearing that there is due process? Because it doesn't look to the public like we've seen any indication of due process or court process.
McLaughlin: There is due process. It's more difficult to get into specifics when you're looking at national security issues, especially with terrorist individuals.
Khalid: Can you give us any indication of what that due process looks like?
McLaughlin: Again, it's law enforcement sensitive, and to give out intelligence reports just because these individuals are denying being members of these vicious gangs would undermine national security. If we did that every single time, that would simply be insane.
Khalid: So it sounds like in these cases, it's the government's word, though, against, say, a lawyer's word or against an individual's word. And there's no ability for any sort of recourse?
McLaughlin: Oh, I completely disagree with that. I mean, we've had multiple instances, actually, with the individual in question that you were mentioning earlier, the Maryland MS-13 gang member, where multiple immigration judges reviewed evidence and determined that he is a verified member of MS-13. That wasn't one judge. That wasn't two judges. That was multiple judges and an appeals board. So I would actually just completely disagree with you. There's been multiple reviews and process, not just by lawyers, not just by the government, but by these immigration judges themselves.
Khalid: I want to ask you about students we have seen detained, in some cases now facing deportation. The White House and DHS have asserted that these students were supporting terrorism. They say that they were exercising their free speech rights criticizing Israel's war in Gaza. Can you articulate what sort of evidence you all have that support the claims of ties to terrorism?
McLaughlin: Absolutely. I mean, some of this looks like defacing property. Some of this is holding buildings hostage, making threats against other students, especially harassing Jewish students.
Khalid: But defacing property is not considered a terrorism charge, according to my understanding and broad...
McLaughlin: Of course not. But these individuals are here on visas, and visas are a privilege, not a rule.
Khalid: And so there's a different set of rules - you're saying - for foreigners living in the U.S.?
McLaughlin: If you are here on a visa, absolutely. There is a — that is a privilege, not a right. And the secretary of state maintains the authority to revoke that visa. And if that's the case, then ICE and DHS will enforce it.
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